diff --git a/interface/src/Application.cpp b/interface/src/Application.cpp
index 0bbd2b1c17..8a7a5c610a 100644
--- a/interface/src/Application.cpp
+++ b/interface/src/Application.cpp
@@ -3064,6 +3064,7 @@ void Application::updateCamera(RenderArgs& renderArgs, float deltaTime) {
     auto myAvatar = getMyAvatar();
     boomOffset = myAvatar->getModelScale() * myAvatar->getBoomLength() * -IDENTITY_FORWARD;
 
+    //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "boom offset" << boomOffset;
     // The render mode is default or mirror if the camera is in mirror mode, assigned further below
     renderArgs._renderMode = RenderArgs::DEFAULT_RENDER_MODE;
 
@@ -3074,10 +3075,12 @@ void Application::updateCamera(RenderArgs& renderArgs, float deltaTime) {
         _thirdPersonHMDCameraBoomValid= false;
         if (isHMDMode()) {
             mat4 camMat = myAvatar->getSensorToWorldMatrix() * myAvatar->getHMDSensorMatrix();
+            //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "camera 1rst translation hmd " << extractTranslation(camMat);
             _myCamera.setPosition(extractTranslation(camMat));
             _myCamera.setOrientation(glmExtractRotation(camMat));
         }
         else {
+            //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "camera 1rst translation desktop " << myAvatar->getDefaultEyePosition();
             _myCamera.setPosition(myAvatar->getDefaultEyePosition());
             _myCamera.setOrientation(myAvatar->getMyHead()->getHeadOrientation());
         }
@@ -3099,6 +3102,7 @@ void Application::updateCamera(RenderArgs& renderArgs, float deltaTime) {
 
             _myCamera.setOrientation(glm::normalize(glmExtractRotation(worldCameraMat)));
             _myCamera.setPosition(extractTranslation(worldCameraMat));
+            //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "camera translation 3rd hmd " << extractTranslation(worldCameraMat);
         }
         else {
             _thirdPersonHMDCameraBoomValid = false;
@@ -3112,6 +3116,7 @@ void Application::updateCamera(RenderArgs& renderArgs, float deltaTime) {
                 _myCamera.setPosition(myAvatar->getDefaultEyePosition()
                     + myAvatar->getWorldOrientation() * boomOffset);
             }
+            qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "camera translation 3rd desktop " << (myAvatar->getDefaultEyePosition() + _myCamera.getOrientation() * boomOffset);
         }
     }
     else if (_myCamera.getMode() == CAMERA_MODE_MIRROR) {
diff --git a/interface/src/avatar/MyAvatar.cpp b/interface/src/avatar/MyAvatar.cpp
index 3f738ea4cb..9971f90bd6 100755
--- a/interface/src/avatar/MyAvatar.cpp
+++ b/interface/src/avatar/MyAvatar.cpp
@@ -1704,8 +1704,10 @@ glm::vec3 MyAvatar::getSkeletonPosition() const {
         // The avatar is rotated PI about the yAxis, so we have to correct for it
         // to get the skeleton offset contribution in the world-frame.
         const glm::quat FLIP = glm::angleAxis(PI, glm::vec3(0.0f, 1.0f, 0.0f));
+        //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "position third person " << getWorldPosition();
         return getWorldPosition() + getWorldOrientation() * FLIP * _skeletonOffset;
     }
+    //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "position first person " << Avatar::getWorldPosition();
     return Avatar::getWorldPosition();
 }
 
diff --git a/interface/src/avatar/MySkeletonModel.cpp b/interface/src/avatar/MySkeletonModel.cpp
index 0fc5e7521e..86085798ab 100644
--- a/interface/src/avatar/MySkeletonModel.cpp
+++ b/interface/src/avatar/MySkeletonModel.cpp
@@ -95,7 +95,9 @@ void MySkeletonModel::updateRig(float deltaTime, glm::mat4 parentTransform) {
 
     // make sure lookAt is not too close to face (avoid crosseyes)
     glm::vec3 lookAt = head->getLookAtPosition();
+    //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "look at " << lookAt;
     glm::vec3 focusOffset = lookAt - _owningAvatar->getHead()->getEyePosition();
+    //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "focus offset " << focusOffset;
     float focusDistance = glm::length(focusOffset);
     const float MIN_LOOK_AT_FOCUS_DISTANCE = 1.0f;
     if (focusDistance < MIN_LOOK_AT_FOCUS_DISTANCE && focusDistance > EPSILON) {
@@ -113,6 +115,8 @@ void MySkeletonModel::updateRig(float deltaTime, glm::mat4 parentTransform) {
     glm::mat4 avatarToWorldMatrix = createMatFromQuatAndPos(myAvatar->getWorldOrientation(), myAvatar->getWorldPosition());
     glm::mat4 sensorToWorldMatrix = myAvatar->getSensorToWorldMatrix();
     params.rigToSensorMatrix = glm::inverse(sensorToWorldMatrix) * avatarToWorldMatrix * rigToAvatarMatrix;
+    //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "AVATAR: " << avatarToWorldMatrix;
+    //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "SENSOR " << sensorToWorldMatrix;
 
     // input action is the highest priority source for head orientation.
     auto avatarHeadPose = myAvatar->getControllerPoseInAvatarFrame(controller::Action::HEAD);
@@ -282,6 +286,7 @@ void MySkeletonModel::updateRig(float deltaTime, glm::mat4 parentTransform) {
     eyeParams.leftEyeJointIndex = geometry.leftEyeJointIndex;
     eyeParams.rightEyeJointIndex = geometry.rightEyeJointIndex;
 
+    //qCDebug(interfaceapp) << "right eye index is  " << geometry.leftEyeJointIndex;
     _rig.updateFromEyeParameters(eyeParams);
 
     updateFingers();
diff --git a/libraries/avatars-renderer/src/avatars-renderer/Avatar.cpp b/libraries/avatars-renderer/src/avatars-renderer/Avatar.cpp
index 69356cdfaa..07d1edcabb 100644
--- a/libraries/avatars-renderer/src/avatars-renderer/Avatar.cpp
+++ b/libraries/avatars-renderer/src/avatars-renderer/Avatar.cpp
@@ -169,6 +169,8 @@ AABox Avatar::getBounds() const {
         // approximately 2m tall, scaled to user request.
         return AABox(getWorldPosition() - glm::vec3(getModelScale()), getModelScale() * 2.0f);
     }
+    //float temp = _skeletonModel->getRenderableMeshBound().getLargestDimension();
+    //qCDebug(animation) << " largest bounding box dimension " << temp;
     return _skeletonModel->getRenderableMeshBound();
 }
 
@@ -1775,6 +1777,7 @@ void Avatar::buildUnscaledEyeHeightCache() {
     // Sanity check by looking at the model extents.
     Extents meshExtents = _skeletonModel->getUnscaledMeshExtents();
     float meshHeight = meshExtents.size().y;
+    //qCDebug(animation) << "mesh height " << meshHeight << " skeleton height " << skeletonHeight;
 
     // if we determine the mesh is much larger then the skeleton, then we use the mesh height instead.
     // This helps prevent absurdly large avatars from exceeding the domain height limit.
diff --git a/libraries/avatars-renderer/src/avatars-renderer/SkeletonModel.cpp b/libraries/avatars-renderer/src/avatars-renderer/SkeletonModel.cpp
index de8c02f10e..83caaede8d 100644
--- a/libraries/avatars-renderer/src/avatars-renderer/SkeletonModel.cpp
+++ b/libraries/avatars-renderer/src/avatars-renderer/SkeletonModel.cpp
@@ -71,14 +71,23 @@ void SkeletonModel::initJointStates() {
         qCWarning(avatars_renderer) << "Bad head joint! Got:" << headJointIndex << "jointCount:" << _rig.getJointStateCount();
     }
     glm::vec3 leftEyePosition, rightEyePosition;
+    qCDebug(avatars_renderer) << "initial left and right eyes " << leftEyePosition << " " << rightEyePosition;
     getEyeModelPositions(leftEyePosition, rightEyePosition);
+    qCDebug(avatars_renderer) << "after setting the left and right eyes " << leftEyePosition << " " << rightEyePosition;
     glm::vec3 midEyePosition = (leftEyePosition + rightEyePosition) / 2.0f;
 
     int rootJointIndex = geometry.rootJointIndex;
     glm::vec3 rootModelPosition;
     getJointPosition(rootJointIndex, rootModelPosition);
+    qCDebug(avatars_renderer) << "root joint index " << rootJointIndex << " root position: " << rootModelPosition;
 
     _defaultEyeModelPosition = midEyePosition - rootModelPosition;
+    if (headJointIndex > -1) {
+        glm::vec3 headModelPosition;
+        getJointPosition(headJointIndex, headModelPosition);
+        qCDebug(avatars_renderer) << "we have a head joint " << headJointIndex << " and " << headModelPosition;
+    }
+    qCDebug(avatars_renderer) << "the default eye pos " << _defaultEyeModelPosition << " and scale " << _scale;
 
     // Skeleton may have already been scaled so unscale it
     _defaultEyeModelPosition = _defaultEyeModelPosition / _scale;
@@ -294,6 +303,16 @@ bool SkeletonModel::getEyeModelPositions(glm::vec3& firstEyePosition, glm::vec3&
         firstEyePosition = baseEyePosition + headRotation * glm::vec3(EYE_SEPARATION, 0.0f, EYES_FORWARD) * headHeight;
         secondEyePosition = baseEyePosition + headRotation * glm::vec3(-EYE_SEPARATION, 0.0f, EYES_FORWARD) * headHeight;
         return true;
+    } else if (getJointPosition(geometry.headJointIndex, headPosition)) {
+        glm::vec3 baseEyePosition = headPosition;
+        glm::quat headRotation;
+        getJointRotation(geometry.headJointIndex, headRotation);
+        const float EYES_FORWARD = 0.25f;
+        const float EYE_SEPARATION = 0.1f;
+        float headHeight = glm::distance(neckPosition, headPosition);
+        firstEyePosition = baseEyePosition + headRotation * glm::vec3(EYE_SEPARATION, 0.0f, EYES_FORWARD);
+        secondEyePosition = baseEyePosition + headRotation * glm::vec3(-EYE_SEPARATION, 0.0f, EYES_FORWARD);
+        return true;
     }
     return false;
 }
diff --git a/libraries/shared/src/shared/Camera.cpp b/libraries/shared/src/shared/Camera.cpp
index 787b7bfb1a..c80e14d87c 100644
--- a/libraries/shared/src/shared/Camera.cpp
+++ b/libraries/shared/src/shared/Camera.cpp
@@ -9,6 +9,7 @@
 //
 
 #include "Camera.h"
+//#include "../SharedLogging.h"
 
 /**jsdoc
  * <p>Camera modes affect the position of the camera and the controls for camera movement. The camera can be in one of the